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It's a great day at Michael Leavitt & Co Home Inspections. Can you believe that August is ending? Where did the summer go? It went by so fast. We are ready to return to a normal, steady pace of inspecting. We are now gearing up for the upcoming holiday weekend and I can't tell if we will be swamped or slow this week.
POLYBUTYLENE
CONTINUEDLast week's MMM dealt with the Polybutylene issue. My thoughts and ramblings drew some return e-mail opinions. I will share those with you and point out that there is still some division amongst our Association as to how to best report on the issue...... Is Polybutylene supply piping a reportable condition just because it is Polybutylene??? Both Bill Ball and Jon Gudnason were willing to step up to the "Hot Seat" and state their opinions, but I think that they missed my focus. That is my fault, so I will attempt to clarify my position.
In response to my commentary, Bill Ball replied....
Hi Michael: As you might have guessed, I disagree with you
Michael Wrote:... I still question
the blanket disclaimer.... "We recommend further evaluation
of the system's integrity by a licensed Plumber." I feel
this is weak disclaimer because we are able to tell if there are
obvious signs of current or past leakage. Calling upon a Plumber
is really just an added
wasted expense for our clients if there are no visible signs of
leaks. The issue isn't that we are presuming that there are current
concealed leaks that maybe a Plumber could find. Instead, the
issue is that PB piping is extremely prone to leakage. The client
needs to know that it may happen. There is no track record that
I know of that says that every home will experience leaks. Afterall,
their home may not ever have a leak. But if it does, there is
a source of financial relief....... That is the key. I do not
think that having a Plumber come out is important unless you encounter
current/previous leak
repair/damage, or you encounter an aluminum crimp ring system.
>>
WHOOPS! Since when did a HI become an "expert" on plumbing. Have HI's recently become "licensed" plumbers in their communities before offering HI services?
Michael, Remember the Umbrella Philosophy? A.I.I.(tm) HI's are NOT required to offer "expert" or "licensed" opinions, only state the conditions encountered. I feel you've slipped over the lip and outside the umbrella.
If you want to post the Umbrella Philosophy,
I'll forward it to you.
--
Michael Wrote: NOTE: The aluminum
crimp rings are a known LOSER system, and that is why I
recommend the Plumber and a possible system upgrade when I encounter
them (Usually found on older Mobile Homes).
The information about the class action
settlement is really a blessing. It now gives us an easy way to
break the news to our clients..... "Polybutylene water supply
systems are prone to leakage. If leakage does occur, then you
could qualify for system upgrading through a class action settlement.
I
recommend that you visit the kinsella website for further information
on the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement at ......"
For those of you that doubt this approach,
I would refer you back to the possible asbestos containing sprayed-on
acoustical ceiling topic discussed on May 10, 1999, in the MMM.
This used to be a huge obstacle with buyers and agents in my area.
Once I started referring clients to the State of Utah
website on the topic, it quickly became a non-issue.
The same was true of the Lennox Pulse
heater safety inspections. When I provided the full information,
all of the parties were grateful. I would provide my client with
a full 2-page printed information sheet that gave them the information
and the contact numbers for the free safety inspections. I have
found that access to the source information softens the blow to
the consumer..... Seek and obtain the truth and the truth will
set you free. >>
This sounds like practical advice that the State of CA took care
of for us when they published their booklet for home buyers that
every Realtor had to pass along. Bill Ball, Founding Chairman
Bill has pointed out that I have stepped out from under the Umbrella of security. His point is valid until we all start reporting on Polybutylene in similar fashion. The Plumbing section of our Standards of Practice says....
The Standards of Practice state that I am to identify the supply pipe type and if there are any cross connections or leaks. They say nothing about mandatory situations in which a Plumber should be recommended for further evaluation. I next turned to my Green Sheets for help. There are quite a few guidelines under the updated Rules of Thumb for Polybutylene piping, but no mandatory "Recommend further evaluation by a Licensed Plumber" conditions. The nearest is "No plastic elbows, T's, or Pipe slices - THESE FITTINGS EVENTUALLY LEAK." I then turned over to my Electrical Green Sheets because I thought that I clearly remembered some conditions where mandatory further evaluation by the licensed tradesperson is required. Sure enough, I found... "Aluminum Wiring / Call Electrician if at No. 14 or No. 12 size wires." This is what I was looking for in the Polybutylene piping section..... But to no avail.
Please keep in mind that when I composed last week's MMM, I was trying to open the dialogue to see what the membership thought about the topic. Until we (AII™) reach a decision, I will be operating outside the Umbrella of security. We don't have a clear cut directive on how to report the PB condition. Knowing this, I next turned to Bill Ball's Home Inspector's Code Book™ to see if he was more direct on the "How to report Polybutylene pipe" condition. Bill has some good information and news stories on the topic. From the HICB™ in Appendix K-4 page 3 of 3 we read....
Average cost for PB-related repairs are about $4,000, says Carl Triphahn of the Piping Industry Progress Education Trust, a contractor's organization in Phoenix. In some cases, homeowners are finding that homeowners insurance companies will either cancel their coverage when the extensive damaged is caused by PB or refuse coverage to homes piped with PB-- {Home Inspectors must therefore identify PB supply piping in a home and flag it with a "potential hazard" flag}.
At last...... Somebody is in agreement (in writing) that this pipe is BAAAAD!!! The item in red and blue above is Bill Ball's editorial note. Bill did not think it necessary to recommend further evaluation by a licensed Plumber, or maybe he did. It is not clear. According to the HICB™ the Home Inspector has to report on the component and if there is a "Reportable Condition" it is to be reported in one of the following 4 ways:
According to the HICB™ there is only one small editorial note stating that PB is a "Potential Hazard." The jury appears to still be out as to how to accurately report the piping. If we underplay the risk, then we are potentially vulnerable to lawsuits, and if we overstate it then we are "Chicken Little." Jon Gudnason shared on the AII™ Inspector Hotline.....
MMM quote: "The information about the class action settlement is really a blessing. It now gives us an easy way to break the news to our clients..... "Polybutylene water supply systems are prone to leakage. If leakage does occur, then you could qualify for system upgrading through a class action settlement. I recommend that you visit the kinsella website for further information on the Class Action Lawsuit Settlement at ......"
For those of you that doubt this approach, I would refer you back to the possible asbestos containing sprayed-on acoustical ceiling topic discussed on May 10, 1999, in the MMM. This used to be a huge obstacle with buyers and agents in my area. Once I started referring clients to the State of Utah website on the topic, it quickly became a non-issue.
The same was true of the Lennox Pulse
heater safety inspections. When I provided the full information,
all of the parties were grateful. I would provide my client with
a full 2-page printed information sheet that gave them the information
and the contact numbers for the free safety
inspections. I have found that access to the source information
softens the blow to the consumer..... Seek and obtain the truth
and the truth will set you free."
Michael, I understand the logic of
your thinking but it raises some serious questions. There are
hundreds of product recall and defect notices out there that we
could add to our reports. How does one possibly keep track of
them all? There are water heaters, furnaces, heaters, ceiling
fans,
plumbing components, smoke detectors, siding, roofing . . . It
goes on and on. Where do you draw the line? If you mention any
of them could you be considered negligent for not mentioning others?
Could you be considered negligent for not mentioning any of them?
Are we morally obligated to tell our clients everything we know
on a subject? Are we morally obligated to research all available
product safety and defect information available? That would be
a life-long research project. Hard
questions with no easy answers. Jon Gudnason
I respect both Bill and Jon's opinion a great deal. Both are seasoned in this profession. I also know where Jon sits in the "moral" responsibility issue. Jon has expressed many times the moral thing to do and he follows it. If it is in the client's best interest, he does not care what others in the transaction think. He serves his client to the best of his ability. Polybutylene is a hard question with no easy answer.
I responded to Jon with.... "I do believe that we are negligent if we do not bring potential major issues to light after we learn about them...... What do you think???"
Jon came back strongly with.....
Negligent? Very strong language. Who gets to decide what is major? What kind of documentation do we need? Who decides if the person or people providing documentation are credible? What happened to simply reporting known existing conditions on the property we inspect? What happened to the umbrella?
We need to tell people what it is
we observe on the property we are inspecting and we need to try
and be sure they understand the significance of what we are telling
them. We do not need to be an enforcement agency or information
provider for the Consumer Products Safety Commission. I, for one,
do not have the mental capacity to remember all that stuff. An
inspection that goes into
that kind of detail would have to be worth many thousands of dollars.
The inspector would also need very extensive insurance backing.
Jon Gudnason, Placerville, CA
So as not to start World War III, I hope that today's MMM clears the following concerns:
"Negligent" is the term the Judge uses when he rules against your efforts. As of yet not one of you has sent back details of how you are reporting Polybutylene. I was willing to share how I was doing it, and also shared how I was changing the weak areas of my PB reporting. I challenge you to step up to the "Hot Seat"........ Where do you weigh in on the topic??? Last week I said....
I still question the blanket disclaimer.... "We recommend further evaluation of the water supply system's integrity by a licensed Plumber."
It should be understood that I am more than happy to use this disclaimer each time I encounter PB if the AII™ membership deems that this is the appropriate reporting technique. Until then I am left to dangle outside the Umbrella of security not knowing what is exactly appropriate.
CPSC
HEATER RECALLFor those of you who deal with Trane brand heat pumps in your areas this will be good information. We don't use heat pumps here in Northern Utah so the notice is of little value to us.
For Immediate Release August 18, 1999
Release # 99-158 Trane
CPSC, The Trane Company and American Standard Inc. Announce Recall of Home Heating and Air Conditioning Components
WASHINGTON, D.C. - In cooperation
with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), the Trane
Company, of Tyler, Texas, a division of American Standard Inc.,
is voluntarily recalling 9,900 accessory electric heaters. These
heaters are used to provide supplemental heat in heat pump or
electric heating systems. Whether in the cooling, fan, heating
or off mode, incorrectly routed wires can cause the accessory
heater to continually cycle on and off. Excessive heat could catch
nearby combustibles on fire.
Trane and American Standard are aware of four reports of heaters continually running. No property damage or injuries were reported.
These auxiliary electric heaters were
sold as a component in various models of Trane and American Standard
brand air handlers for heating and air conditioning systems. The
air handler is the indoor
component of the consumer's air conditioning or heating system.
The air handler is a painted metal cabinet, which has the Trane
or American Standard nameplate on its front. The nameplate provides
a list of accessory electric heater model numbers that could be
installed in that air handler. The model numbers for the recalled
units are BAYHTR1419A and B.
The model numbers for air handlers that may contain the recalled heater units are:
TWG048A140A TWG060A150A TWV036B140A
TVF036A140A TWE030C140A,B TWE030C140F TWE030C14FB TWE036C140A,B
TWE036C140F TWE036C14FB TWE042C140B,C TWE042C14FB,C TWE048C140A,B
TWE048C140F TWE048C14FC TWE060C15FC,D
TWE060D150A,B TWE030P130A,B TWE030P13FA,B TWE036P130A,B TWE030P13FA,B
TWE042P130A,B TWE042P13FA,B TWE048P130A,B TWE048P13FA,B TWE060P130A,B
TWE060P13FA,B TWE063P130A,B TWE063P13FA,B TWE031E13FA,B TWE037E13FA,B
TWE040E13FA,B TWE065E13FA,B All models have a single arabic digit
after this final letter.
Independent installers of Trane and American Standard equipment sold these accessory heaters nationwide from October 1997 through May 1999 for between $250 and $400.
Consumers should remove any combustible material from around the air handlers with recalled heaters. Consumers with one of these electric heaters should call their local independent Trane or American Standard dealer, listed in your local yellow pages, for a free inspection and repair, if needed. For assistance in locating a local independent dealer, contact Trane at (888) 556-0125 between 7 a.m. and 5:30 p.m. CDT
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