TURNING ON UTILITIES

This is a great story Chris. I will now tell of a similar situation that happened to me a couple of weeks ago: I show up at the home and no utilities were on. Called the listing agent, who assured us that the water and electric were to be turned on, and informed him that neither was on (The main disconnect and all breakers were switched off, and the water was shut off at the meter.) He was shocked that I would not turn them on and stated something to the effect of “I don’t understand why you can’t just turn them on, what could happen, I have never heard of anything catastrophic happening from someone turning on the utilities…etc…” After making sure that I understood that he thought I was incompetent and trying to get out of something he then said he would send someone over….20 minutes later a very friendly water district employee showed up to turn on the water. The second he turned the water on a great whooshing sound could be heard emanating from the vicinity of the kitchen. I sprinted outside to tell the kind gentleman to close the valve. When I went beck into the kitchen a large pool of water was on the floor in front of the sink. In the area under the sink I noted: everything was soaked, stab fittings, electrical tape repairs at the supply lines, 70% of the cabinet floor was missing because it had apparently disintegrated from water damage, much of the visible subfloor (manufactured home) was disintegrated as well, I could look into the crawl space. I had the impression that this wasn't the first time a leak occurred here;-) Did I mention that a disposal outlet without a cover was installed under the sink- no cover plate, and dripping wet. Good thing someone didn't show up to turn on the electricity. Other plumbing leaks were found elsewhere. I took photos and went to the listing agent who did the best guilty dog impression I have witnessed by a human. Peter Barten Bay City, OR.

After getting burned on it at a mobile home, you don't turn it on. More about this at the Manufactured Homes inspection training in Portland. Jim Lucas - Camino, CA

Thanks for the teaser response Jim...... To all of you who will be attending Jim's presentation, let us know the details of Jim's story. Maybe Jim is offering a discount to those Certified Mobile Home Inspectors who have already been through the training, but would enjoy sitting in on the presentation of his story. I guess that we will just have to wait until November to learn the details of Jim's story. Until then, be careful under those manufactured homes because they are full of reportable conditions. I would especially caution you to try and avoid inspecting an older manufactured home that has the plumbing shut down. I still revert back to Brent Foster's reference to the structures when he was a mobile home salesman. Wobbly Boxes were what Brent called them. Brent's description goes on to use words that I prefer not to use here in the MMM. Knowing what he knows, Brent prefers to avoid inspecting mobile homes altogether. It seems that there are just not enough hours in the day to document all of the issues found in a typical 25 year old wobbly box. And then to make it even more insulting, the client usually wants a discounted fee for this type of inspection......... I'll take a mansion with a basement any day.

FAVORITE CRAWLSPACE MEMORIES

My favorite crawlspace memory goes back to 1994 when checking for anchor bolts at the foundation sill plate. I felt what I thought was a 2 inch electrical conduit. I was startled when the conduit moved and stuck its ugly head out. Fortunately it was only a corn snake which had made its temporary home in the crawlspace to keep cool. That is one crawl that I exited more than quickly. Tom Adams - Lexington, Ky.

Great story Tom. I have no idea what a corn snake is, but I am a lot like Indiana Jones myself. I hate snakes. I was jabbering on my cell phone the other day at a vacant mountain cabin in Provo Canyon near Sundance when all of the sudden a 2' snake scurried across the walkway in front of me and into the bushes. Whoever said that white men can't jump should have seen me that day. The conversation that I was anxiously engaged in suddenly came to a halt. When I landed again on the earth, I was shaking and quivering as it hit me what just happened.

The story ties in really well with the recent crawlspace theme of the MMM because I was at this property the second time to enter the crawlspace that had no access upon my first inspection. So here I am on my return visit seeing a wimpy water snake just before getting into a home to get into the crawl. My desire to enter the substructure crawl of a cabin right next to the stream was nil. When I entered the home the second time and found the closet that supposedly housed the access. The closet was full of card tables and a storage armoire that was too heavy to move single-handedly. The twenty year old carpet was secured firmly to the tack strip and there was no access cut through the carpet. This brings up a deeper issue on company policies.

When you go to a home with a crawlspace access, what do you do? Do you have an additional crawlspace fee? Is the fee higher for homes with multiple crawlspaces? Do you elicit an additional fee for your return visit? Do you pull back carpet to get to the crawlspace access? How do you scare away snakes and varmint so that they are aware of your presence and get out of your way? What is your boilerplate for inaccessible crawlspaces? Have you ever returned to a home to review the crawlspace and found MAJOR issues? Inquiring minds want to know........

PHOTO CHALLENGE FEEDBACK #107

The black flexible line appears to be a water line. it looks like the same stuff i crawled over one time in aold house. this line can get very britle so be carful. i was carful going over it, barely touched it and it started leaking. such a very lovely crawl space. the mound looks like a dirt pipe with some kind of ash or other debris over it. Tom Pittman - Roseburg, OR

Poly Pipe ( Irrigation piping ) used as pressure supply lines. Incomplete or no vapor barrier over soil surface. Unsecured wiring and insufficient pipe hangers leaking plumbing fitting. Mound of unknown substance. No visible foundation vent openings. Reggie Ayres - Medford, OR

First recommend an electrical contractor go in and clean up the wiring mess before someone gets killed. Then recommend a general contractor take care of the structural conditions before the plumbing contractor goes in finish the clean-up. The list is to numerous to even start to write up unless you have a lot of time on your hands. The photo to the client tells all. Roy Steffen - Willits, CA

The "wife's head" looks like an old tree stump. There is cellulose debris on the ground. Water pipe lacks support every 6ft. and at change in direction. The plastic tubing looks like part of my landscape watering system. Electrical wiring is not off the ground as required. Looks like a challenge getting into the next crawl space. Jim Lucas - Camino, CA

I see lack of supports for both the water and waste lines, electric wires not attached / laying on ground, poly irrigation pipe used for a water line, looks like an electric motor sitting on the ground, wood scraps and other trash in the crawl space, lack of a vapor barrier covering the soil, no floor insulation. I can't quite make out what that curved black pipe is just under the joists at the back of the picture, and what is that holding up the water pipe in the foreground? Gary Holzbauer - Junction City, Oregon

Thanks to all who responded to the crawlspace issues. Just as I suspected, all of you were like me and did not have an explanation for the dead woman's head in the crawlspace. I have seen them and figured that they were just the remains of bushes or tree growth when the built the home. I finally wrote back to Jim Maass, the photographer of the mound, to ask him what it was. Jim responded.....

Hey...by the way, what did you think the mound is in the picture? The mound is a root mound caused by a pipe leak! I've seen them on a couple of occasions. It has been a scorcher over here for the past week, sure wish the cool weather would come back! It's kind of sad when you wish for broken ductwork in the crawl space to cool you off! Jim Maass - South Carolina

Now armed with that brief explanation I am left with two trains of thought. The root mound is either caused by the leaking moisture from a pipe above that moistens the ground and the roots come to the surface to find the source. Or the roots come from a ruptured exterior sewer main that already has roots growing up through it and the roots come back out at another sewer line break in the crawlspace. Both of those train of thought are speculative and I will have to resubmit the question to the readership. Who can give us an explanation of the source and causes of root mounds in the crawlspaces? What do they mean when we see them? What else should we be alerted to look for when we see a root mound? If any of you know any plumbers, please run the question by them as well. Let's get to the bottom of this rather eccentric issue.

ON A HUMOROUS NOTE

The following message and photo comes to us from Diane Corbin. Diane is the wife of our current AII President Jim Corbin. Jim has recently started to train inspectors along with Ron Cloyd. Diane shared.....

Hi Michael and Shelly: Thought you might like to see the attached. This is what the guys looked like after a busy weekend of teaching new home inspectors. They were supposed to be watching Indiana Jones . . . they never made it! Enjoy. Diane Corbin

P.S. Shelly - So glad to hear your good news. Hope your recovery is quick in coming. You're in my thoughts and prayers!

First of all why would anyone need documentation for an opinion? Do I need documentation to recommend further evaluation or repair by a "specialist"? I am there to alert my client of any red-flags. If I were in court over something like this then shame on me for not convincing everyone involved of the obvious. I guess I would take a glass of water and pour it on a flat counter or table and suggest that this represents the current condition of the grade. Then tilt the table up and suggest that this represents proper grade and watch the water run off and then listen to the crowd go AHHHHHHHHH I get it. Who says this house is a crawl space? Maybe it is a slab which doesnt change the need for proper grade but i still ask. If you go look at a pony wall say for a garage, they are formed with a 2x6 which is only 5&3/8 in. So if you are building on existing grade your siding only has to be 5&3/8 from the ground. That is factual and obvious. Be very careful using code books for answers because any city can adopt or throw out what they wish. This is simply common sense, why waste time looking up what the required grade is? Water runs downhill it is very simple. General Lee's comments were the closest to simple and understandable in laymans terms, but I would have added some direction for my client. Chris Burkhart - Sandy Ut

Your point is well taken Chris, but you yourself love to glean the details that researching a topic further can provide. I guess that I need to get defensive for a moment to further make my point. Remember a couple of months back how simple the study of washing machine installations was? We sat together in a meeting where I asked the ten questions about washing machines. You were the first to roll your eyes over why we were studying the washing machine specs. Afterall, we don't test washers and you could have really cared less at that moment about looking at the documentation.

Ater our 30 minute discussion about washing machine installations, you then became the individual who latched onto the details the firmest. From that discussion we learned the maximum height of discharge for a washing machine. If you were to enter a home today that had a 99" discharge point from the floor to the drain line for a washing machine, then you could back up your report comment that says it is too high. You would also now be saved the embarrassment of making an issue over a similar installation that terminated 89" off the ground. That was great information for inspectors who live in areas with unfinished basements where the homeowners aggressively get involved in the completion.

This is my motive for further investigating building standards and installation specs. If we simply fall back to our own logic and reasoning, then our reports is full of just unfounded opinions. Opinions bring callbacks and dispute amongst the parties involved in the transaction. The last thing that I want to deal with is phone calls about one of my opinions. Our report explanations need to closely match the standards and specs that the building industry establishes so that we have a firm foundation to sit comfortably upon if we are called upon the carpet. The more factual a report becomes, the less opinion there is to argue with. Knowing that a drain line should drop a 1/4" per foot or that the exterior grade should drop 6" in the first 10" is very valuable information. Having documentation for those details removes all opinion from our explanations. As Jack Webb would say, "Just the facts Ma'am!"

To come full circle on this discussion, what documentation should we refer to when we report on the grade to siding clearances for siding, stucco, brick etc.? Is it 6"? Is it 4"? Is it 10"? Does it vary from snow country to arid desert? What is the clearance recommended in your area? Where does this clearance recommendation derive from? Is it a building "Code," a manufacturers installation spec, or is it written in the requirements of your local yokel building department?

June 10, 2002

TURNING ON UTILITIES

What are your warnings when inspecting older manufactured homes?

FAVORITE CRAWLSPACE MEMORIES

Please share with us your company crawlspace policies?

PHOTO CHALLENGE FEEDBACK #107

Who can give us an explanation of the source and causes of root mounds in the crawlspaces?

ON A HUMOROUS NOTE

DO WE REALLY NEED DOCUMENTATION?

FHA HELP NEEDED

PHOTO CHALLENGE #108

"What are the 3 biggest issues you see? Please list them in order of importance with #1 being the most important"

QUOTABLE QUOTE: "If you make a mistake, it's your mistake. If you hit a home run, it's your home run." Hank Aarron

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