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MONDAY MORNING MESSENGER |
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Message prepared especially for Members of the American Institute of Inspectors® as well as Home Inspectors abroad |
GOOOOOD MORNING, A.I.I.....
It's a great day here in Orem, Utah. I am so thankful to have survived this past week. Every waking minute was crammed with some family, school, church or work event. Balancing the time has become next to imposible. Keep in mind that sheduling time off is out of the question when you still have to get all the bases of a household covered. I spoke to my employer about taking a leave of absence, but with the rising box of envelopes in the box marked bills leaves that option out of the question....... So what do you do? How have you become the master of your time? If you have any special tips, please pass them along to me in a private e-mail. Let's get on with this information packed issue of the MMM.
AII EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR'S ADDRESSHey Gang,
Nope, no baby yet. Nathan & Misty are a week overdue. Since the doctor had told her three weeks ago that she could deliver anytime it seems like they are actually three weeks overdue. I'm trying real hard not to keep asking her how she's feeling or stare at her all the time like I might see something start to happen. I have told Nate that it is a grand parents right to pace the floor outside the delivery room and listen for the first cry and try to guess the baby's gender. Ron Cloyd had predicted Misty's delivery date as his birthday, March 16th a long time ago. Oops Ron, did I give something away? Don't worry, I didn't mention your age or relate it to the age of dirt or anything. It is interesting that Ron is having an Inspection Certification class next weekend. Looks like a big class too. They didn't know they were going to be guests for Ron's Birthday.
If you haven't checked out Ron's web site CIT@CertifiedInspectionTraining.com lately you may want to do so. Ron, Jim Lucas and John Rebenstorff have put together a pretty aggressive schedule for Inspector Certification classes. (There may be some other classes that I am not aware of by the other Certified Instructors.)
The Board of Directors made a decision a few years ago for instructors to give $100 to the association for each new inspector they certify. This money is used towards the students first years membership dues. Our Board also made a decision at the last Board meeting to offer a free conference registration to new members in their first year of membership to encourage them to attend the conferences. It takes a lot of time and money to get a new business going. These things were put in place to help our new inspectors be successful. Note: The free conference registration was not made retro-active, it went into effect as of the Nov 2nd Board of Directors Meeting.
In a time when it has become very important for us to work towards a larger membership base it will help for us all to be well informed on the benefits for new members and to market our association. Your membership privileges offer you;
About the Spring Conference..... The registrations are coming in regularly, confirmations have gone out by email or postal mail to everyone who has registered so far. The cut-off date for the $50.00 discount is Friday, March 15th. You can register by phone 800-877-4770 or fax 541-882-9856 using a credit card or by postal mail to 1421 Esplanade St., Suite 7, Klamath Falls, OR 97601. Registrations must be post marked by March 15th to receive the discount.
In answer to a some of the questions I have received;
Q. I haven't been a member very long, can I get a free conference registration?
A. The free conference registrations are for new members who have joined since the decision was made on November 2, 2002. If this decision had been made retro-active everyone would be entitled to a free registration, but how would we pay for the conference? I would love to give everyone a free registration but it is just not practical.
Q. Which sleeping rooms are closest to the conference meeting rooms?
A. Our seminar will be in the basement of the Main Tower. The closest sleeping rooms will be those on the lower floors of the Main Tower. The room rate for rooms in the Main Tower is $89.00 per night if you mention that you are a conference participant.
Q. Why is there a $15.00 fee for guest lunches?
A. To give each participant the same value for their money whether they bring a guest or not. Spouses, significant others are welcome as long as we have the space. Registrants are given preference to the seating room.
Q. How many CEU's do Nevada and Oregon State Certified Inspectors receive?
A. The state of Nevada has a maximum of 10 CEU's allowable per conference.
The state of Oregon will only give CEU's for classes actually related to the physical aspect of inspecting. This conference is approved for 11 Oregon CEU's.
Note: Certified American Institute of Inspectors' members will receive 16 CEU's.
Please keep calling me with your questions, I love communicating with you all. Along that line; although I really do enjoy hearing from you all, I have been extremely busy with my own business lately. I apologize if I have taken a little longer to take care of your requests. I would like to work full time as your Executive Director but the reality is that we just can't afford a full time employee yet. And I say yet because I believe we will be able to in the future. Thanks for your understanding.
Best Regards, Betty Buckley - Executive Director
CRIMPED COPPER PIPE FITTINGSWhile perusing the latest issue of This Old House the magazine, I cam across another gem of inspecting information. It dealt with a new copper fitting for copper piping. I encourage all of you who inspect older homes to pry the $25.95 out of your wallet and subscribe to this fine magazine. I have found that they cover topics in a very educational format and they provide resources to delve deeper into products and topic presented in the issue. I was skeptical about the magazine when it first came out, but I have come to love each issue. I used to spend a lot of time watching This Old House, but time has been a presious commodity in the last year and I have not been able to watch very many recent episodes. The magazine keeps me up with their latest projects and I love to watch them retrofit the older homes. Their website is www.ThisOldHouse.org and I encourage you to subscribe.
The article that I will post here is found on page 77 of the March 2002 issue. The main story titled "A Systematic Approach" is a wonderful article about the boiler and forced air heating systems used in this old 118 year old home. Talk about an extreme installation, this home uses radiant floor heat, radiator, and even the small diameter forced air ducting system that is all powered by a modern boiler system.
There's no denying that the climate-control systems in the McCue home are high-tech wonders, from the microprocessor equipped boiler to the evergy-recovery ventilation units. But hung from the joists and woven through the walls is a web of domestic water lines that also uses the latest technology. Two mataerials - a flexible pipe and an innovative coupling system for tried-and-true copper piping - have saved hours of installation time for Rich Bilo. "Our job isn't getting easier," he says, "It's just getting faster."
Bilo used the PEX tubing to run the water from manifolds in the basement to the various fixtures: a first for a TOH project in Massachussetts. The material has been accepted for in-floor-heating, but it has only recently received conditional approval from the state for domestic water supply lines. "This house is a test case," says Bilo. "The manufacturer will report on the system's success to the plumbing code enforcement board before PEX gets approved statewide." The tubing comes in large spools, and plumbers can snake continuos lengths of it through the house in the same way an electrician pulls wires. "We can ben it around a tight corner or thread it through a small opening; there's no soldering," says Bilo.
As good as PEX is, there are still situations where copper will continue to be king, "Because copper pipe doesn't sag," says Bilo, "we'll always use it for long horizontal runs." And now, due to the new connection method, it can be installed in less time. For years, plumbers have joined copper pipe by "sweating" joints - a time consuming job involving cutting, burnishing, fluxing, heating, and soldering the joint. The copper industry has recently come up with a quick connect system that works without torches and solder. A Crimp fittingequipped with an O-ring at each end slides over each pipe. Then the plumber pulls the trigger on an electric tool that looks like a giant lobster claw. The tool squeezes the fitting around the pipe and seals the O-ring around the joint. "A couple of the guys times it," Bilo says. "It took ten minutes to solder a joint verses four seconds for the crimp fitting."
The time saved by using the PEX tubing and crimped copper fittings ultimately means money saved. And the two innovations are changing the way a house is plimbed. "More and more often," says Richard, "we just leave our torches in the truck." - Jefferson Kolle
Is there really such a thing? You mean that you can join copper pipes without using a flame and soldered joint? Is it reliable? Is it accepted by the building standards? These were just some of my questions when I stumbled accross this product. News of this newer product stirred up my curiosity and sent me to the web in search of more information. The following information comes from the www.ridgid.com website. If it sounds like a press release or sales info sheet it is because it was prepared by a company that sells the product. I believe that it is good to see what they say about it and then only time will tell if they were right.
INTRODUCTION - The new ProPress System is the smart way to connect 1/2"-2" copper tubing. 
This revolutionary system replaces the time-consuming method of soldering copper with a high-strength, crimped connection. The system consists of specially engineered copper fittings and an electro-hydraulic tool with interchangeable jaws that crimps the fittings to the copper tubing. The result is a permanent, water-tight seal that’s made in just seconds. The savings in time and labor make installations more profitable. ProPress uses a proven technology that is already in wide use throughout the world. Take advantage of this time-saving, profit- producing system. Make ProPress your choice for joining copper.
SAVES MONEY - The ProPress System offers a long list of benefits that make it the preferred method of joining copper tubing for a growing number of professionals. It’s Faster ProPress is faster than soldering, taking as little as four seconds to join two pieces of tubing, regardless of size. 
Because there’s no solder, you can eliminate time- consuming preparations for soldering and clean-up. Forget solder, flux, pastes and all the other items usually required. That means installers can be more productive, and the installations more profitable. It’s Flameless There’s no flame with a crimped connection, so there are no gas tanks or hoses required, no chance of damaging surroundings from heat, and no need for fire protection precautions. What’s more, ProPress is totally reliable for refurbishments and repairs because water pockets and dripping water have no effect on crimping. It Saves Money Because the ProPress System is so much easier and faster than traditional tube-joining methods, you can get to the next job faster resulting in substantial cost savings and more profit opportunities. With ProPress, you can save on average a third of the time you would have spent before.
MORE REASONS - Fast and Easy to Use One squeeze of the trigger makes the connection on any size tubing in about 4 seconds. Compare to soldering and you’ll see the savings. F
lameless No flame means less chance for heat damage. Versatility ProPress can be used virtually anywhere–in commercial, industrial and residential applications, for both new installations and rehab work. Permanent Watertight Seal The system provides a strong, reliable, watertight seal. The high-strength connection, installed properly, will last the life of the tubing system. Wide Capacity ProPress is designed to handle tubing in sizes ranging from 1/2" to 2" in diameter. You can easily switch from one size to another, in about ten seconds, simply by changing the jaws. Large Selection of Fittings There are more than 200 different engineered fittings available in a variety of configurations and sizes. Professional Appearance Because there is no buildup of solder or tarnish with ProPress, the connection is more professional looking. Less Equipment With ProPress, there is no need to buy or carry expensive, cumbersome equipment such as tanks and hoses, and no need for supplies like solder and flux. Environmentally Friendly There is no lead-based solder or flux used with ProPress, so there’s no chance of contaminating the piping system or the environment. Meets Codes and Standards ProPress meets the most rigorous testing standards and codes in the U.S. and Europe. 
The system is certified and approved by institutions ranging from professional associations to government standards bureaus. Proven Technology Used Worldwide ProPress has been in use for years in Europe and other parts of the world. To the professionals who use it every day, it is a proven technology that is preferred over soldering.
THE FITTING - When crimped, the fitting, copper tubing and sealing element are combined to form a permanent watertight seal. The high-performance crimp in front of and behind the bead forms a doubly sealed connection. The seal is made of a high-performance elastomer called EPDM and is designed to last for the life of the tubing. EPDM is tested and certified for its hygienic reliability.
COPPER TUBE - Suitable for Types K, L and M tubing. • Temperature Range:0°F– 250°F • Pressures:rated to 200 psi tested to 600 psi
APPLICATIONS - The unique design of the ProPress System makes it ideal for a variety of copper tubing installations, including: • Potable water • Radiant heating The capacity and rugged design of the ProPress tool and fittings enables the system to be used in a variety of applications, including: • Industrial • Commercial • Residential Because ProPress is flameless, the system is suitable for all types of piping system work, including: • New construction • Repair • Renovation
CODES AND APPROVALS - ProPress is a proven technology that is widely accepted and used in Europe and other parts of the world. The professionals who rely on ProPress prefer this innovative method of joining copper over soldering. The ProPress System meets the most rigorous testing standards and codes in the U.S. and Europe. It is certified and approved by professional associations and government agencies worldwide, including: NSF-61 Approved IAPMO Listed
Wasn't that great information? Sooner or later we are all going to encounter this type of plumbing fitting and we will be prepared with the information as to what it is. Afterall, don't you hate to be blind sided with a new product?
FHA INSPECTION VENTING RESPONSES Ted I am curious if they require a vapor barrier in the attic as well? Some areas of the country dont require attic and crawl space vapor barriers, so does FHA consider what area the home is in?. I think the other inspectors need to be aware that if the crawl space is heated (insulated) that the crawl space vents (if they can be closed) should be left open year round.I am thinking that attic vent requirement is 1/150 of the total sq footage of ceiling space (since it is the moisture laden air and the heat within the home they want out)so I always go by te sq footage of the exterior without the eaves and such. and can be 1/300 if 50% of the vents are high venting or if there is a vapor barrier present on the warm side. If you are dealing with a home that has soffit vents then you are usually dealig with a home that has a very large percentage of the vents covered by insulation and if it is an older home that has had the insulation upgraded then you are dealing with about 100% no soffit ventilation in operation.I have alway been interested in bringing FHA inspections to my services but I was told that they only bring in about $75. And in your first edition you indicated that you spend a good amountof time on these FHA deals, Is the fee correct? and do you go mostly just for FHA inspections? And lastly how long does it take and what do you have to do to get approved to do them?
PS. Oh and Ted thank you for all of this information you are making available. You really are generous and informative. Chris Burkhart - Sandy, Utah
Ted, Thanks for the really great information about FHA/VA inspections. I for one have been involved in many of these inspections, but only from a referral bases from an appraiser for one or more components of the house. With the Pest and Dry Rot inspections as the exception.
When I do these type inspections I always used the appraisers recommendation for a "roof inspection" or an "electrical panel inspection". (Again with the exception of the P/DR inspection.)
Venting in the attic or crawl spaces always required a physical inspection of each area and I always used the standand that if you turned off you light and could see well enough to get out safely, then there was probably enough ventilation. However, I did take into account the conditions in the crawl space. If wet, then let's do something about it. If damage then a correction was forthcoming, and so on.
As to visqueen, if FHA/VA it is always required.
Then, as a last resort, I would do the calculations to verify venting. I always used one vent for every 150 sq. ft. of first floor area of a house. Again, this is a very rough estimate and my crawl finding were the real deciding factor.
I like your recommendation about your opinion as to venting. Many times the venting looked inadequate, but after the crawl my opinion had changed. There were no adverse conditions and the ground was completly dry under the house, even in the winter. I would state this on the report.
Within each region of the country that our inspectors work, there are different circumstances and conditions that are area specific. We all learn these conditions through expirence and maybe a fellow inspector sharing them with us.
I have found, in my area, that our opinions are more valuable than meeting the actual FHA/VA requiements found in a book somewhere.
Ted, I for one would like to see you, if you have the time and the desire, teach a class at one of our conferences, on FHA/VA inspections.
I would like to have a short reference book/manual that could be quickly refered to by our members, that would give the minimun FHA/VA requirements, say on just one page if possible.
You obviously have more "real" knowledge about this subject than I have ever heard of by any of our A.I.I. inspectors.
I not trying to speak for everyone when I say this, but your efforts in the past two MMM's are very much respected and appreciated by myself and I'm sure all of your fellow inspectors.
Thanks for your great efforts and for sharing this wonderful knowledge with us. And please consider teaching a class in the future on this subject.
PS - I actually saw a FHA/VA appraiser crawl under a house once. I had a class of about 9 new trainees with me and we took a picture of him crawling out of the crawl space.
However, we were all in the access area at the time that he needed to look under the house and we had just crawled out. I think he felt selfconsious, so he went under with a flashlight and no mask. I know he did'nt crawl the entire space, but wow! He did go under and out of sight.
I had never seen it done before and not once since. This is the typical appraiser, in my humble opinion.
Respectfully, Ron Cloyd - Klamath, OR
I have not seen too many homes with the required ventilation. The only time I state that additional ventilation be installed is when there are moisture related conditions or there are no vents near the corners. The requirement for a vapor barrier in Washington State is specific. One will be installed.
At periodic meetings with the Washington State Pest Control Association, PhD's have presented results of studies concerning moisture emission from the earth beneath the "average" home (whatever the "average" home size is). They state that between 9 and 14 gallons per day are emitted from bare earth beneath the home...this is why the requirement of a vapor barrier. I can, also, usually tell on the main floor if a vapor barrier is installed...moisture readings at open floor areas and a musty odor.
I am currently working with an agent and contractor to repair moisture damage to the crawl space on a home. It is late 1950's, ranch style with the 2-car garage attached at one end. There were NO vents installed. The rot and mold growth were very extensive...all sill plates, at least 80% of the joists, 3 main support beams, all support posts (no concrete pads either), at least 80% of the subfloor (and that was what was visible); all has to be removed and replaced. It was a good lesson in what can happen with no ventilation.
I also had one home with no ventilation in the attic...this one had black mold over the entire wood substructure sheathing and rafters and on most of the owner storage in the attic. Ventilation...yes, I check it but, until you presented the figures, I had not run the numbers. Thank you for your insight; the information you have been presenting is and has been very helpful. Keep it up. You have gleaned much more from 4150.2 than I. I may have glazed over during the reading. Thank you. Jim Corbin, AII 2002 President - Bow, WA
Ted took the time to interject some reponses to theabove replies........
TH: I will have to admit right up front, that I don’t have any experience with referrals for individual components. That may go with your territory. I have never been asked to do anything separate except roofs. I professionally have no communication with the appraisers. I do get referrals for whole house and P&D inspections from one appraiser, but I hardly ever see him. You could educate me here. What do you do, just use that part of your report that pertains to that system being inspected? Who gets your report? Is your liability as to accuracy of your findings to the appraiser or to a client?
We will cover FHA electrical next week in the MMM.
As I talked about last week, vapor barriers are always required for FHA. As I mentioned, that puts the crawlspace venting in a pretty liberal mode. I was under a hundred-year-old house last month. I noted two foundation vents, both about 4 X 8. It was as dry as a tomb under there, and so dusty I could hardly take a digital image. (I was taking the picture to show that the insulation was installed wrong side out). By the same token, I know that most of you have all crawled in foundations with what appeared to be adequate venting, and still find moisture problems. As you know, every house is different. That’s one of the things that make home inspecting fun.
4150.2 General Acceptability Requirement: Ventilation – Natural ventilation of structural space – such as attics and crawl spaces - must be provided….
Crawlspace “The crawlspace must not be excessively damp, and must not have any water ponding”. Note- Can’t be excessively damp.
Note that there are no strict criteria given here. Again, these are things that you report on your usual whole house inspection. Shame on you if you are not!
That is usually the case. As I have been saying, investigating the FHA manual will reveal that the FHA/VA requirements are so loose, that they do little to protect the prospective buyer. We see things that, while following our usual inspection standards we would normally write-up items as discrepancies that still meet the FHA standards. That is the way we must operate. We should, of course know the standards that the appraiser is going to use in his appraisal, but at the same time, do our very best to examine and report all of the systems of the house so that client will no exactly what he/she is buying.
I would be glad to be of service, but we are pretty well covering every thing right here on this forum.
Matter of fact, I have a little three page check list that I use that covers just that. I use it mostly to explain to the client the things that are specifically inspected in regards to the FHA/VA. I think that I attached a copy to Michael, and would certainly share it with everyone. A little pocket-sized booklet would be great.
TED'S FHA CHECKLIST
To answer your question about FHA inspections: I feel and have said all along that I can't see that there is enough additional work to warrant a price increase for no more work than it adds. Am attaching a check list that I use mostly for customer "eyewash". I have gleaned all of the things that the FHA manual sets out as requirements. As you will see, these things are already incorporated into a good inspection. I couldn't honestly say that an FHA adds any time. Yes, I do a few FHA inspections. I have one in the morning, matter of fact. I don't know what to say about vapor barriers in the attic. I can imagine laying plastic over the insulation and wiring. Ugh! I have never run across anything referring to that, and I hope no one suggests it to them. I don't think that any latitude is given on the area as to the crawlspace vapor barrier. The Government sees them all the same, I guess.
All dwellings, in order to qualify for a FHA Insured Mortgage, must meet certain requirements. The requirements that will be inspected and reported during this inspection are taken from FHA Handbook 4150.2 “Valuation Analysis for Home Mortgage Insurance”, Dated July 1, 1999. There are other additional requirements that the dwelling must meet, however these requirements will be noted and reported by the FHA Appraiser, and will not be considered in this inspection.
Termite inspections are required on all FHA inspections unless the property has been recently built or is a condo.
MASTER INSPECTOR QUIZ - WASHING MACHINES Take IILast week you guys must of thought that I was joking around since only 3 readers thought it important enough to take this quiz. So take a time out and then come back refreshed and take the time to respond. Yes we would love to hear from Greg Justice, Ken Ives, Roy Cooke, and the rest of you. I would love to share the answers and I will send them along this week personally to each person who responds. No response, no answers.
PS..... It takes a lot of time to create these MMM sections. Please help me by participating.
PHOTO CHALLENGE #95 FEEDBACK - Mountain Cabin Living
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Roof vents in this area, where snow falls are heavy at times, most times, need to have cricketts or snow splitter saddles built above them to protect the vents from being ripped off the roof when the snow slides off. This is especially true of metal roofs.
I would also recommend regualar roof inspections/maintanence around vents. Ron Cloyd - Klamath Falls, OR
We just purchased a mountain cabin last summer and are learning about the challenges of winterizing and minimizing the effects of the cold, snow and ice. Our neighbors at Medicine Lake are a great plethora of knowledge, and have given us some advise that I can pass along.
The snow at Medicine Lake reaches depths of 15 to 20 feet on an average year with 31 feet as the most anyone there can remember. A new cabin is being built there, and the current requirement is to have a roof load of 300 lbs. Almost every year someone loses a roof or entire cabin to the forces of the snow / ice.
Many folks go up there to their cabins in the winter on snowmobiles. Many cabins have a door on the second story for winter access, and quite often it is necessary have to dig DOWN to the second story door to get in. It is like going into a cave, and artificial lights are the only light you have inside during the daytime.
It is quite important to have the exterior sealed as much as possible because of the certainty of moisture invasion up the entire structure. Stovepipes and vents are especially succeptible to the forces of the snow and ice. It will take down the average installation with ease. Some use a heavy wall (3/16 or 1/4 inch) pipe VERY securely attached to the exterior wall of the cabin for a stovepipe. This seems to be the most weather resistant installation. All pipes and chimneys should be capped for the winter until they need to be used. Critters as well as moisture find these openings when the snow level comes up to them. A more suitable pipe flashing for a metal roof would be the rubber accordian type that has a leaded base that screws to the roof. They are far superior to the one showed in the picture on the MMM. ( We have also found that vertical stovepipes are preferrable to the horizontal type showed in the picture...ha ha)
The exterior doors and windows should have good weather stripping and thresholds, and should be covered completely with a solid cover. I have seen covers made from sheets of plywood nailed over doors and windows; to wooden shutters that are hinged and can be closed for the winter; to very nice galvanized covers that screw into recessed nuts in the trim. The main thing is to keep the snow and ice away from the doors and windows as the weight of the snow and the expansion force of freezing will push them in. Also, the melting snow in the spring will cause a moisture invasion condition. Foundation and roof vents are very succeptible to small critters and should be sealed well. It's not very nice to see what a Pine Martin or Chipmonks can do to the inside of a cabin over the winter.
Any sinks, toilets or other plumbing should be drained and have some RV anti-freeze run throught them. Canned goods that have water or juice in them will freeze and explode. A friend of ours left some pop and beer in her cabin one winter and they all expolded. What a mess!
Steps and decks are also succeptible to the forces and weight of the snow. They need to be able not only to hold the weight of people using them in season, but also the weight of hundreds and hundreds of pounds of snow in the winter. One neightbor even takes the deck boards off his deck in the winter...after the heavy snow took it down one winter and he had to rebuild the entire deck.
It would take a well prepared and hardy person to live in a place like that year-round. It would be mandatory to have fuel for heat,a full pantry, medical supplies, a reliable snowmobile, snowshoes, a radio to call for help if needed, someone to keep tabs on you if you aren't seen for a resonable amount of time.....etc. If this person is a "City Slicker" they might get one heck of an education the first winter...if they survived.
On a side note...we had a group of thieves go through the cabins at Medecine Lake last fall...just before Thanksgiving... and steal everyone blind. They got Several truck loads of things, personal items, to household items, to generators and off road vehicles. Not that it wasn't bad enough, they left many of the cabin doors open to the elements, and when one family went to their cabin for Xmas, they found 4 feet of snow inside their cabin. This was the case for about a dozen or more cabins. We were lucky, they stole a minimal amount of articles from us. I was in the middle of re-modeling our cabin and didn't have much in it. I guess it made them mad, because two of them stopped long enough to urinate on the new laminate floor I had just installed. I was lucky enough to have a screen door that had closed, and the exterior door that they had kicked in was nearly closed. It held out most of the snow, and I was able to dig down 6 feet to the door and get it all buttoned up again.
We have a lot to learn about cabin "living". Hope this helps y'all. Will Baley - Tulelake, Ca.
PHOTO CHALLENGE #96
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