It's a great day here in Orem, Utah! Thanksgiving went well at the Leavitt household. I had the turkey and dressing responsibilities and Shelly oversaw the rest of the feast. It all went so smoothly this year and everything was ready at the same time. The 19 pound bird was cooked upside down, stuffed with homemade stuffing inside a cooking bag in just 3 hours and 15 minutes. We hope that your Holiday weekend went well and that your families and loved ones are safe and well....... Now we are on to the Christmas countdown.... 28 days to go!!!
News from CPSC - U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission
For Immediate Release............. Cooper Recall Hotline: (800) 954-7145 November 22, 2000.......... CPSC Contact: Kim Dulic............ Release # 01-040
WASHINGTON, D.C. - In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), Cooper Lighting, of Elk Grove Village, Ill., is recalling about 34,000 recessed lights. The glass ring exterior portion or trim of these lights can fall from the fixture, posing a risk of lacerations and impact injuries.
Cooper Lighting has received four reports of glass rings falling from these light fixtures. In two incidents, consumers were hit on the head causing lacerations and bumps.
These recessed lights were sold from catalogs under Halo Brand Metropolitan Ice Series #945 and #1945. They have blue, rose and frosted clear glass rings that are about 5 inches in diameter. The glass ring assembly snaps into an installed ceiling fixture recessed light housing.
Once installed, only the glass is visible. Only model numbers 945, 945H,
945BLUE, 945BLH, 945ROSE, 945ROH, 1945, 1945H, 1945BLUE, 1945BLH, 1945ROSE, and 1945ROH are involved in this recall. The model number appears on a white stick-on label on the black trim ring. Consumers should turn off the power before checking their lights. Consumers that have recessed lights with 5-inch exterior glass rings should call Cooper Lighting. The firm will provide instructions on how to remove the glass ring assembly to check lights to see if they are part of this recall.
Home Depot catalogs, electricians, and electrical supply companies sold these lights nationwide from September 1996 through October 2000 for about $40.
Consumers with the recalled lights will receive free replacement trims. The firm will send consumers free shipping labels to return the trims. For more information, call Cooper Lighting at (800) 954-7145 between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. ET Monday through Friday or write to: Cooper Lighting, 1121 Highway 74 South, Peachtree City, GA 30269.
Lights without bracing clips are not part of this recall.
To see a picture of the recalled product(s) and/or to establish a link from your web site to this press release on CPSC's web site, link to the following address: http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml01/01040.html.
That's just great..... Now all of us Inspectors need to run around like Chicken Little screaming "The Cooper Light Rings are falling!!!"
Last week's Photo Challenge was another classic.......
Silly, Silly. It's the largest Termite mud tunnel ever discovered under a home. TB RVHI, Ashland, OR
This must be a photo from Billy Bob's cousin's house. I am unsure if this tree trunk/branch was added for structural support or is purely decorative in the homeowner's eyes. This may violate the furnace clearances. The bark appears to have been removed. "This support is unconventional in size and shape, recommend a structural engineer evaluate supporting structure of the structure." Ken, did you report on the wiring to the overhead light fixture? Steve Bradley - Tumwater, WA
As long as the timber is structurally sound and performing the function it is supposed to perform, there is no concern. I've seen them placed within structures and homes in completion of basements where the decorative effect is desired in addition to the structural performance. I would report that it is a column of character provided no deterioration was visible. Jim Corbin - Bow, WA
Ken Kellog, a new member to AII in July was such a great sport. Hope we didn't scare him away. And Steve Bradley is always a good sport. I laughed so hard I cried watching these two compete! Betty Buckley - Klamath Falls, OR
Steve Bradley, I believe 2 to 1. Very inventive and laughable at our annual dinner. Great job, Betty!! Jim Corbin - Bow, WA
Bradley has the most Balls! TB RVHI - Ashland, OR
I believe that the winner of the AII Basketball Championship was Mr. Steve Bradley, by a score of 2 to 1. But the true winners of this game was the audience who witnessed the true efforts of the contestants...Nathan Buckley - Klamath Falls, OR
Steve Bradley had the rhythm, yet Ken Kellog had the stamina...... Experience or youth, that is the question. Michael Leavitt - Orem, Utah
Ed Wagner sent along the following computerization questions.....
Hi Michael, I want to get "high tech", but in a controlled manner, so I need your help. We talked in Portland and you said to ask you for your "Sample Residential" and that I could try it out. That's what I am asking for.
Also, I spent some time with several Hewlitt Packard folks yesterday, and what they proposed for hardware was:
The logic? Do the 3D report on the mini computer and the pictures on the camera, and reference the photos in the report, but print the photo direct to the printer rather than importing them into the report. This would then keep the report file size smaller, and yet allow me to attach the photo printouts.
How much memory does the 3D software and form set require? How big is the typical report --without photos and then with typical photos?
I really want to get going with this and would really appreciate any and all help you can provide.
Thanks Michael. Ed Wagner
These are great questions, Ed, and I think that I can save you some money and headaches in the process. First you ask about a trial form set of my 3D reports. Let me expand on this invitation..... Many of you want to computerize and 3D has a FREE full running demo disk that allows you to use the software for 30 days. It allows you to change, modify, print, and actually use the software to make money for 30 days to see if you like the product. If you would like a copy, all you have to do is e-mail me and request a FREE copy.
I also have a trial set of my report forms. My forms work with the 3D reporting system and they are specifically geared towards the little CE machine, although they work great on the larger system as well. If you would like a trial version of my report forms you should e-mail me. PLEASE NOTE: My trial form sets are restricted in that you have a limited number of uses. They also cannot be modified or personalized and they are just to show you what the forms are like. I do not send out fully modifiable trial versions of my form sets because they would quickly become pirated.
Ed asked.....Also, I spent some time with several Hewlitt Packard folks yesterday, and what they proposed for hardware was:
In my opinion the CE platform is not mature enough to view as a fully complete system platform. The HP rep would like you to think that you can do your report on the little machine, print it out, and even deal with the pictures. To that I say you will be very disappointed and frustrated with outdated and limited hardware very quickly. I may get a lot of flack from the Borealis users and TurnKey users, but I have seen the reports generated solely on the CE platform and they are primitive looking at best.
The CE platform is still too new to crank out all of the high-tech conveniences we have become so accustomed to on our big full running windows machines. If you view them as "data capturers" to be used as an extension to your full running windows machine, you will not be disappointed. However, if you want it to be your sole machine to produce reports you are in for disappointment. Programmers have been slow to crawl back into a limited box in which to produce their software. Add to that our new found love for producing reports full of custom headers, graphics and digital photography scattered throughout and we become memory and speed mongers. The little machines can be good producers of text-only reports, but that is a step back into the 20th century.I do believe that as time goes on we will be able to do all of this, but I do not believe that we are there yet.
As to the idea that the HP rep presented to you to use a portable infrared printer, I don't recommend it. If you want a small portable printer, I have a Cannon BJC-80 that has collected dust for two years. It never did make it to an inspection site because of the overall slowness of the machine. The ink cartridges were also very small and the whole idea seemed stupid....... If you want a good printer, buy a good one with high performance features. Don't believe the high speed printing rates because they are based on text-only printing. A typical 3D inspection report incorporates a custom header with two logo graphics, while the rest of the report prints border boxes and photos on several of the pages. This is a very complex document that requires a good printer to be able to crank out the report in a reasonable amount of time.
Now, lets say that you would prefer to send your reports via e-mail the way that I do. This eliminates the need for printing, cartridges, paper, and report covers. To do so, you must produce the report and convert it into a PDF document. I am not aware of a CE version of Adobe Acrobat to convert your report files and therefore you cannot produce the file format that your client can readily open.
Ed, I am not saying that it can't be done, but I am saying that it is not as smooth of an idea as the HP rep makes it sound. I use the CE platform daily. I also use an 800 mhz Pentium III laptop running Windows ME with a 15 gig hard drive that I use to the maximum every day. I love the conveniences of modern computer technology. The CE platform is a very limited stripped-down version of the full running windows environment. I can't recommend that anybody take the step backward to the CE thinking that they will get to take advantage of the built-in spell checkers, photo editors, PDF creators, and working with large e-mail files...... The software market has yet to fully tap into and develop this market..... Give it another year. The Windows CE platform is not for everyone in the inspection profession, but those who go into it with realistic expectations are more than satisfied.
Ed also asked.... The logic? Do the 3D report on the mini computer and the pictures on the camera, and reference the photos in the report, but print the photo direct to the printer rather than importing them into the report. This would then keep the report file size smaller, and yet allow me to attach the photo printouts.
Good logic, Ed, but the pictures are part of the report. You will forever want to save the pictures with the words in the same legal file. As for the printing directly from the CE machine, the smaller Pocket PC machines do not yet support the printing feature (from any software). The larger HP and NEC handheld CE machines do offer printing capabilities, but I don't know if 3D has even added the CE printing feature. They are not seeking the text only, basic report. They have sought after the professional report with all the bells and whistles that we decide fit to use. Their software is currently designed to upload to the big Windows machine and polish it off there. That doesn't mean that there aren't home inspection softwares out there that are not designed to print directly from the CE handheld machine, because there are a few. They are limited in a lot of ways but you can seek them out. Try www.Borealis.com or www.mapturnkey.com just to name a couple. Be careful though as you will have to adopt their style of reporting because the form sets are not completely customizable.
And finally Ed asked...... How much memory does the 3D software and form set require? How big is the typical report --without photos and then with typical photos?
The answer to this is that it depends...... Are you asking about the CE version or the full version? The CE report form set takes about 900K for the form set. Add to this the 3D for CE software which I'm guessing is probably 2.5 meg (Not sure). This allows for me to have 4 or 5 form sets on a little 32 meg Pocket PC and then have up to 10 more reports. The reality is that you never have over 3 reports on the machine because the moment you upload a report into the big machine you wipe it out of the little CE machine's memory. This also does not include the graphics that come into play later on the big system.
The file size of the report forms on the big machine are the same, but the finished report files are much larger. A report that has no graphics is approx. 800k but an EIFS report with 15 photos might be 6 meg in size. The entire increase in file size is due to the graphics. This is also where the addition of the Adobe Acrobat comes into play. The same 6 meg file is compressed down to about 800k if the photo files are saved in the JPEG format. Typical home inspection reports with 3 or 4 graphics compress down to 150k to 300k and transfer over the internet very well.
IN SUMMARY: If you want to computerize your reports, then plan on producing reports first on either a laptop or a desktop before attempting the process on a CE machine. After you are comfortable with the system on your big machine, then you can add the CE data capturing learning curve to your inspection process. If you would like to try 3D just send me an e-mail and request a demo disk. Also, request a limited trial form set and give the system a test without any financial outlay.
WARNING: I warn you though that once you have produced a computerized report you can never go back to producing handwritten check lists again.
Your Name: Please include your name or else I don't know who it is from.
ATTIC INSULATION QUESTION
Jon Larson has once again asked a great question......
I have a hard time believing that ventilation would not be necessary with this type of insulation. No matter what the insulation, there would still be temperature differences between interior and exterior causing condensation. As Ron Hungarter wuld say "This looks like an unhealthy house"...Nathan Buckley, Klamath Falls, OR
I have not seen this before either. I would guess it is some kind of foam spray?? I would report that no ventilation is possible with the potential of moisture buildup at the roof material from either condensation or leakage. Recommend a licensed insulation contractor evaluate and provide information on future maintenance. Jim Corbin - Bow, WA
Michael, I appreciate the kind words in the MMM. I've read most of Corbond's web site and it still leaves me with some unanswered questions. Is this insulation a closed cell or open cell system? If it is closed cell and the roofleaks, (which most due at one time or other) does it trap the moisture next to the sheathing and cause premature failure of the roof, sheathing or rafter area? If it is an open cell system, will the water penetrate into the attic and without ventilation then what will happen? I don't know these answers and wonder if this is another E.I.F.S. in the making. I guess time will eventually give us the answer. Jon Larson Ephraim, UT.
Any thoughts for Jon?
Your Name: Please include your name or I don't know who it is from...
2000 November Board Meeting Minutes
American Institute of Inspectors Board of Directors Minutes November 10, 2000
MEETING
Sincerely, Rick DeBoard, Secretary
CRUSHED WATER HEATER FLUE cont.
"SO---DO YOU THINK THE CRUSHED FLUE IS CAUSED BY LACK OF ADEQUATE COMBUSTION VENTING??".... asked Steve Jordan. I threw this out to the MMM readership and most of you are waiting to hear what others have to say. Jim Corbin responded with a great Mechanical Engineer's perspective on the destructive nature of poorly tuned gas flames.......
I would venture two situations: One...if the flame is starved for air, the burning process would continue up the flue using air that made it by the combustion chamber. Usually there is an over supply of combustion air and all combustion takes place within the combustion chamber allowing only waste gases to go up the exhaust vent. The heat of combustion plus the hot gases are designed to work within the area of combustion.
When incomplete combustion occurs in the chamber, the available air supply will sometimes migrate up the exhaust flue causing further combustion as the gases progress up the flue. Sometimes, flames will appear randomly at the back draft opening (in the worst case). If the flame is really starved, there will be a lot of soot and the flame thermocouple will soot over and the flame will go out. The flame front going up the flue, in these starved situations, is combusting in an area where there is little to no heat protection within the metal design. There is overheating and resultant softening of the metal and the external water pressure slowly presses inward on the heat soffened metal and may cause collapse of the flue.
Second...all gas or other fuel contains sulfur. When the combustion process occurs, the byproducts of combustion are Carbondioxide and water, under the best conditions, PLUS the residual sulfure (which does not combust). The sulfure combines with the water formed from combustion to form Sulfuric Acid in minute quantities. When the combustion process proceeds as normal, the hot gases proceed out with no condensing. When incomplete combustion occurs, the temperatures are lowered and condensation could occur within the exhaust flue. The reaction of minute quantities of sulfuric acid condense out on the cooler flue tube wall and cause the corrosion. The design of the heaters is such that the exhaust flue is maintained above the condensation temperature of the gases under normal combustion circumstances.
On FD furnaces with high efficiencies, the flue is a PVC inert material to overcome the corrosion process. This is why it is essential that flames are tuned and there is an over supply and flow of combustion air. I have gas appliances on a yearly adjustment contract with a local company that occurs at the beginning of the heating season. Well, these are my speculative theories and hypothesis. Hope your Thanksgiving is Great and memorable. Jim Corbin, Bow, WA
How would a "visual inspection" ever uncover this condition?...Nathan Buckley, Klamath Falls, OR
I'm not so sure that it matters whether or not we are supposed to uncover this condition, Nathan. Instead, it is my hope that we can explore the topic to better understand what can bring about common component failures. Seeing the exterior tank charring and reporting that you have seen a red flag worthy of further evaluation/repair/replacement is all that our visual inspection requires.
Jim Corbin has just opened my mind to a better understanding of the burning of a flame through this discussion and my knowledge base is better as a result. All of this discussion and speculation continues to inspire my curiosity. Earlier this week I was called upon to evaluate a little 700 square ft HUD foreclosure that had a lot of "PROBLEMS." I was told of several improvements that would include the replacement of the currently installed water heater. I had extra time on my hands and I took lots of pictures......
This photo (left) shows the obvious breakdown/meltdown of the natural gas fired water heater. This was one of the worst meltdown charrings that I had ever seen. I was certain that this was a great candidate for the crushed exhaust flue. Since it was to be replaced and the rest of the house was in shambles my curiosity took over. At that point I saw nothing wrong with removing 3 screws that secured the draft hood and I repositioned the exhaust vent out of the way.
Once the exhaust vent was out of the way I took my channel locks and tried to raise the flue baffle. To my surprise it raised up and out of the unit. I had never before removed this long wavy piece of metal and was having a great time exploring the insides of a gas fired water heater. All the time I was satifying my curiosity I was taking mental notes and pictures for the benefit of the MMM readership. This was exciting, to say the least. I was amazed that the entire piece could be raised out of the water heater unit.
Next, I looked down the water heater's inner flue to see if I could see any deterioration. I was once again surprised to see that there was no rusty deterioration to the inner flue. This was a suprprise to me because from the lower burn chamber there was an large amount of rust and deterioration evident. I wish that I knew how long the unit had been leaking water from the tank. This would help to balance the amount of rust from water leakage verses the poor gas flame. I thought that the use of the Sarah Lee pie tin was quite creative, yet a futile attempt to protect the home under-structure from the ongoing water damage.
PHOTO NOTE: Look at the photo on the right and you can see what the flue baffle looks like. It is about 4 feet long and spirally twisted on this model water heater. Looking down the baffle about a foot from the top is a securing ring that normally sits up at the top of the baffle and holds the baffle centered in the top of the water heater's inner flue. Also notice the white crystaline type build-up on about 50% of the baffle..... This is that same build-up that is commonly found at the top of many gas fired forced air heating unit combustion chambers.
So where does all of this leave me in the crushed flue pipe investigation??? So far I have drawn very few firm conclusions. More questions have been created than answers found. Here are at least 3 firm conclusions.......
Name, City & State: Please include your name or else I don't know who it is from.
Ken Ives has once again snapped a classic photo that Ron Humgartner should add to his presentation "Scary Stories From The Attic." What would have been your reaction? Would you have entered inside any further?
What would you have reported? What would you have done? Better yet, what would you have told your clients on the walkthrough?
Name, City & State:
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