It's a great day here in Orem! The weeks are flying by and I am still wondering how well I am balancing my time. I took on another project of taking a seasoned Inspector's archive of comments and incorporating them into my 3D Inspection System reports. It was very laborious, but it gave me the chance to greatly improve some of the weaker areas of my report's boilerplate. This included both the crawlspace and exterior sections of which we don't have that many items to report on here in Northern, Utah when compared to the more humid areas of the country.
I would like to put a note of thanks to all of those people who work so hard across the nation volunteering their time to pull off local Home Inspector chapter meetings. Regardless of the affiliation of the groups, just the fact that Inspectors can get together and rub shoulders is a huge bonus for the participants. Here in Northern Utah we have a group that meets monthly at a local restaurant and we have a different topical presentation at each gathering. This past get together was no exception. We had an electrician come in and we were asked for a list of questions before hand that we wanted touched upon by the local professional. Here is my list of 10 questions for Sparky.......
Further clarification would be helpful on the following......
1) What is the distance an item like an A/C condenser can be from the main panel where the item is tapped directly off the main lugs running full power on smaller gauge wires until it finally goes to a breaker near the unit. I would prefer to see a breaker at the main panel, but is there a hard and fast rule since we see this all of the time.... And what is the source of the rule???
2) Are there any exceptions where a hydromassage tub does NOT need to have the motor bonded?
3) Are there ever any exceptions where a 220/240 volt breaker can power two separate appliances?
4) Can a subpanel be installed with a four wire supply and have both the neutral and the grounding buss bars isolated/floating from the panel, and yet not have the subpanel case bonded to the system?
5) Does a metal roof need to be bonded? If so, what should we look for to verify that it is?
6) How about aluminum siding.... Does it have to be bonded? If so, what should we look for to verify that it is?
7) Is it ever acceptable to run a grounding wire from the ground screw on a receptacle directly to a nearby water pipe as the sole source of ground for the outlet? We find this on older homes with 2 prong outlets when they want to have a grounded outlet on the kitchen counter for the microwave or for a computer.
8) When the underground main supply conduit settles and rips out the bottom of the meter box and you can see the supply lines in the exposed gap, what is the process for repair and what is the ballpark repair estimate???
9) Is the IDEAL splice connector now approved for use when joining the copper pigtail to the aluminum 110/120 volt wiring??? Or is the coppalum splice still the only accepted method of splicing? It was recently rumored that the purple IDEAL connector was now acceptable.
10) What questions would you recommend being asked of an Electrician when one is called upon to make repairs to older systems??? It seems that our clients are always getting taken advantage of by electricians that are not backing us up on the miswirings that we document in our reports. I have had electricians question my reporting of a) double lugging breakers b) aluminum wiring c) the need for using anti-oxidant lube d) securing stranded aluminum and solid copper wires under the same set screw e) bonding hydro-massage motors f) lack of securing clamps on Romex entering panels g) polarity of 2 prong outlets etc etc etc
I thought that this was a pretty good list of questions, so I also passed these along to Doug Hansen to see what his responses would be. Doug replied.......
1) What is the distance an item like an A/C condenser can be from the main panel where the item is tapped directly off the main lugs..... Sorry - this one is just plain wrong. The easiest source is to cite the lugs themselves, since darn few are rated for more than one conductor, and if they are rated for two, they won't be rated for one big one and one small one like the one that goes to the AC unit. Look at 110-14 in your NEC. Next issue is it sounds like you are describing something that would be an extension of the service entrance conductors, which get special consideration because they have no overcurrent protection. Therefore, they require special physical protection (see 230-50a) and any tapping must be done with clamped or bolted connections (230-46). Finally, your AC disconnect, since it is tapped directly off the service conductors, is now also another main disconnect. Main disconnects must be grouped in one location, per 230-72. The distance I have always used is that you shouldn't have to move your feet to operate all the disconnects.
Our local Sparky also agreed.
Per 680-73, it can NOT be bonded if the tub is a piece of listed equipment employing a system of double-insulation. In such cases, you would see a 2-prong plug off the motor, and bonding would defeat the system of double insulation, and is therefore prohibited. Now I don't know about what they're selling in Utah, but personally I've never seen such a tub. The ones I've run into all have grounding conductors run to the motors, and they usually have unused bond lugs on top of those motors. The requirement for bonding the hydromassage tub motor didn't come into the code until the 99 edition, and then it was because of a fluke shock that occurred. If you read the original code proposal, there were three other things that went wrong (broken neutral service conductor, bonded neutral in subpanel, and not GFCI) on the one where someone got shocked (heck, not even killed) yet the code making panel bought the rationale and threw the requirement in there. I've talked with the folks at Jacuzzi and at UL about this one, and they were not exactly pleased. Bottom line - look for GFCI protection. If you've got it, you're protected, and bonding the motor doesn't matter.
I responded back to Doug with the following.......
The information about the bonding on the hydro-massage motors left me still questioning. You said that they are supposed to be bonded, but then said that if it was GFCI protected then don't worry about it. So which is it? The last thing I want is somebody to later say that I didn't document this condition and they now need for me to open my checkbook to fix it.
Doug kindly responded back........
The motor has an equipment grounding conductor that connects to the motor frame. The bonding conductor is a redundancy. It is required by the 99 NEC. Here in California we are still on the 96 NEC, and therefore don't require it. No testing of any sort has been done to demonstrate the need for bonding the motor - it was put into the code simply by this one fluke incident that occurred. I therefore don't think it is that important.
Our local Sparky gave the similar answer, but I still disagree with the both of them for the simple reason of our own liability. If the NEC is requiring this and we opt to forego the reporting of the lack of bonding, then we are responsible. This seems negligent on our part because if the fluke situation does occur it could result in a shock or death. I believe that we should report on both GFCI protection and bonding. I have spoken with our local spa manufacturers and they are in complete agreement that the bonding should be installed if the motor is equipped with a bonding lug, of which most in our area are.
Certainly - how about two electric baseboard heaters on the same circuit? As long as they are within the maximum allowable loading of the circuit (80% of the breaker rating, in the case of electric heat) then there is no problem. The equipment that does require an individual circuit includes central heating, air conditioning, and electric clothes dryers, among others.
No - and Michael - please use the correct word (sorry if I seem a bit pedantic here). A "buss" is a "kiss." In electricity, we put breakers on bus (one "S") bars. Next - all metal non-current carrying enclosures must be grounded. The "case" must be bonded. The only difference between subpanels and service panels is that the subpanel neutral (being a current-carrying conductor) should be insulated. We want that current traveling on insulated conductors, not on enclosures.
Yes (to first part of question) if there is any chance of it becoming energized, and there always is that chance with an overhead service. See 250-110. As to second part of question - haven't a clue - never seen it done.
See previous cop-out, er - answer.
Used to be kosher, now the code says run it back to the originating panel or to the grounding electrode conductor or to the service (250-130c). If it works (as shown by your tester) then don't worry about it. The code just doesn't trust that water piping to be continuous, since it could have dielectric unions or sections of plastic.
If it's PVC conduit, then you can install an expansion fitting. If it is metal, they should put an "S" loop in it, preferably underground, at great expense. In either case, you are looking at a service disruption. What the heck do you care what it costs? It's important, it's open the checkbook time.
9) Is the IDEAL splice connector now approved for use when joining the copper pigtail to the aluminum 110/120 volt wiring??? Ot is the coppalum splice still the only accepted method of splicing? It was recently rumored that the purple IDEAL connector was now acceptable.
Careful how you use the word "approved." Only the "authority having jurisdiction" is supposed to use it. UL evaluates products to determine if they are "suitable" for conformity to their published standards. They don't "approve" anything. That said, Ideal 65's are listed by UL as a suitable method for splicing copper and aluminum, as are some types of split-bolt devices and even that ludicrous copalum device. There is a lot of debate about whether UL's testing of the Ideal 65 was sufficient, as in "did they test it on the old alloys or only the new ones?" but I don't think you want to enter that debate. Bottom line - stay away from telling folks how to fix it.
Doug is right about telling people what fixes are appropriate. I was more concerned with opening up a panel and seeing the purple Ideal wire nuts and knowing whether they were acceptable as a splice connector or not.
10) What questions would you recommend being asked of an Electrician when one is called upon to make repairs to older systems??? It seems that our clients are always getting taken advantage of by electricians that are not backing us up on the miswirings that we document in our reports. This is an interesting question with equally interesting answers. Our local Sparky was aware of our dilemna because he has done several existing home electrical inspections as well as hundreds of repairs on the same. He cautioned us that most electricians out there are new construction electricians and not existing home repair electricians. We should recommend to our clients that they ask if the electrician is licensed and insured. Then they should get the numbers. It turns out that many supposed licensed and insured electricians are actually just working under another electricians license. As for an Electrician who is qualified to do aluminum wiring retrofits you should ask if the Sparky has purple wire nuts on his truck. If they do not, they are not the man for the job.
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Is that a 20" x 4" filter? If so and it is the only filter in the system I would report "Inadequate filtration, suggest installation of a properly sized filtration system by a licensed HVAC contractor" Also the replacement of this filter looks as though it would be very labor intensive so I would also comment on having the filter be made more accessible. Peter Barten - Bay City, OR
There is one major problem. That is that the filter is on the wrong side of the A/C a-frame. This will cause the A-frame to act as the filter and the end result will be reduced air flow and a cleaning from an HVAC contractor for a cost of about $200.00. Makes those one dollar filters look cheaper all the time (providing that they are in the correct location). Lou Jerome - Smithfield, Utah
Must be one of those life time filters!! Ken Jones - Redding, CA
How do you change the filter ? Is that the proper tape tape on the duct? Mike White - Sonoma, CA
This is obviously a practice magic act from Siegfried & Roy. The long metal pipe serves at the leggy assistant to draw your attention away from the real problem (sorry, "magic act"). The trick with this act is being to pass a solid object through another solid object. With much practice, you can pass the flexible air filter through the solid and less than shapely metal pipe. Looks like the current home owner has this trick down pat. It's that or the air filter is as dirty as Bill Clinton in a roomful of interns!! I'd just report it as a practice area for a great magic act and remind my client how much money they can make once they learn the "trick". Just charge the neighbor kids admission for the monthly magic show when they change the filter. Kent Duke - Raleigh, NC
A new occasional feature to the MMM is the "Who Is This Inspector???" contest. In order for this to be successful I need for you to send a photo image of yourself in an odd position doing something you enjoy. Today's photo is an awesome picture of an extracurricular activity that I have always loved to watch. Whitewater Kayaking is an incredible sport.........
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