It's a great day here in Orem, Utah! We are headed into another week and I hope to try to keep my head above water. Last week I spent all of my time trying to satisfy the needs of my career, my wife, my kids, and my Boy Scouts. It was too much and I found myself almost doing enough for each, but I let a few things fall by the wayside.
This past week was our annual Boy Scout Klondike Derby. This is where we go out into the cold and brave the elements up in the mountains. This year it was very cold but a very clear night. The stars were plentiful and we went for a starry night walk on the ice-covered Deer Creek Reservoir near Heber, Utah. I must confess that I think that walking on ice is really a dumb thing to do. This ice was over 12" thick, but standing on top of a 300 foot deep reservoir in the sub-freezing temperature is total craziness.
Standing on an ice-covered lake in the dark is crazy because the ice is an always changing life form. We would hear cracks of low volume lightening and finally realized that it was the ice splitting underneath us. We also heard the strange sound that resembled either a whale or a Loch Ness monster that was about to jump up and swallow us. We later found out that both of these occurrences are good things because it means that the ice is still freezing beneath you and that it is still stable to be upon....... This did not make it any more comfortable to be on Saturday morning in the daylight as we could see fractures run through the ice. Call me gun shy, but I was freaked out more than once as we taught these young men to walk on water.
Saturday afternoon found me returning home to unload my vehicle, help Bill Bergstedt with some emergency 3D Report System formatting, and then I played Rocket Dad with my kids. My 5th grader, Jessica, wanted to launch rockets for her science project this year so two of her friends, my other 3 kids and myself headed to the park on a perfect Saturday afternoon. If you have never launched rockets (I never had), then I highly recommend that you go to the hobby store and by a rocket kit with several extra flight engines.
The science project was to include launching the rocket several times and measuring how high the rocket went. We used several different sized engines to see what affect that they had on the height of the flight. This sounds simple, but the challenge is how to get three ten-year-olds to learn how to measure the height of a rocket in flight...... How would you measure this height? After watching the Rocket Boys in the movie, "October Skies," I realized that timing the flight and working calculus into the equation wasn't going to happen, so I reverted back to a little lesson taught in the Boy Scout manual.
The Boy Scouts teach how to measure how tall a tree is. One scout stands back about 75 feet from the tree and holds up his hand in an L shape and adjusts the position of his hand away from his face until the top of the L is equal with the top of the tree. He then turns his L on the same axis 90 degrees so that the corner of the L is still at the base of the tree. Meanwhile his Scout buddy paces away from the tree at a perpindicular path to the other Scout. When he reaches the same distance out from the tree as the height of the tree the Scout with the L shaped hand will see him standing at the end of the L...... Sounds a little confusing, but it works. It is as though the tree fell down onto the ground. Once you have this measurement, you can either measure it off or pace it off to get the distance.
We successfully taught Jessica and her friends how to measure the flight of the rocket. We sat one girl in a chair about 200 feet away from the launching pad. Then we set up one of my camera tripods so that she could rest her chin on the top of the tripod. Then we hammered a piece of PVC pipe into the ground in front of her that had a ribbon attached starting at eye level. When the rocket launched she would raise her hand and let it slide up the ribbon without moving her head from the tripod. When the rocket peaked she would then keep a grasp on the ribbon and then stretch it out 90 degrees to the side. The other two girls would walk out until the ribbon girl told them to stop. From there they would measure how far back to the launch pad. We had one flight go over 400 feet, which is quite high for the large sized rocket that we were launching. We have a little one that is supposed to go over 1,000 feet with the same size engine. Our launching party was cut a little short because after the 6th flight we burned off the elastic shock cord that connects the rocket to the nose cone after the parachute opens..... Just a minor repair.... More fun to come!
With all of that fun on Saturday, I was ready for bed, but that was not to be. Brent Foster needed 1 1/2 hours of my time helping him with his new Fujitsu pen computer and then I was supposed to polish off this MMM (that did not happen). I was reminded that we had Grandma lined up to watch the kids so that Shelly and I could go out for the evening. It did not matter if I was passed out on the floor from exhaustion, because Shelly and I were going out. That opportunity does not present itself as often as I would like, so you've got to take it when you can.
The hardest part about the week is that I also have this job that requires a little bit of my time. In between my inspecting schedule this week, there was Valentine's Day and oh, yes..... I got a little Love Bug of my own...... That's right, I was wiped out by a computer virus known as the MSN95@M virus. It does nothing more than completely destroy your hard drive files.
I am under the impression that most of you are as prone to virus attack on your computer as I was. I found these tips on the net........ Keep track of how many of the 5 tips you are currently following. The scary part is which ones you are blissfully ignoring and at the same time, setting yourself up for disaster.
The Dutch hacker who launched the Anna virus this week had a point: People really don't learn. It's up to each of us to develop a personal information security strategy--and I have a simple, 5-point plan for doing just that.
If you got hit with Anna, don't feel too bad. While I was at Microsoft on Tuesday for the Windows XP preview, the maintenance staff was scurrying around pasting red-lettered signs on all the buildings--on the major entrances no less--warning of the virus attack. A spokesperson for that very same Microsoft was happy to mention that people who used Windows Update to download the patch issued last summer were immune to the Anna attack.
I'm not sure what that says about our friends in Redmond--other than they're just like everyone else when it comes to (not) updating their software, even when it can be done almost automatically.
It's been said over and over--even here at AnchorDesk. But because so many people still don't seem to get it, and because the only way to really thwart publicity-hungry hackers is by making ourselves immune, let me tell you what you need to do to protect yourself from most any virus that may come your way:
Step One: Use Windows Update every week or so to get the most recent security updates and patches. Windows ME fully automates the process, but even done manually (from the icon that's usually near the top of your Win98 start menu), the Windows Update process is mostly painless. I received two copies of the Anna virus, which Norton Anti-Virus happily removed from my incoming e-mails. In fact, I've never suffered a major virus attack. The one time I thought I did actually turned out to be a series of garden-variety Windows crashes.
Step Two: Pay attention! I don't open attachments that I'm not expecting, especially if they come from strangers. You shouldn't, either.
Step Three: Virus protection software. It amazes me that fully 50 percent of personal computers aren't running virus protection. What are these people thinking? Apparently their data and time have no value, because virus protection is cheap; you can buy it at Wal-Mart, the warehouse stores, and all the office superstores.
It's both difficult and easy to choose anti-virus software. There are a number of brands, with Symantec's Norton and Network Associates' McAfee being the best known. I use Norton because it's what I've have always used. But I have friends who say McAfee is just fine. Indeed, one easy way to choose is to listen to your friends. Alternatively, pick one of the major brands, which have become major for a reason.
Step Four: The best virus protection software can be worthless if you don't update it. It used to be a little difficult to get updated virus definitions. Today it's easy and inexpensive--the software will get them for you. New viruses are discovered almost daily, and while they may not be a threat right now, in six months they could be. Learn the lesson the Dutch hacker got arrested for trying to teach us!
Step Five: Install a personal firewall, especially if you have a persistent Internet connection at home like DSL or a cable modem. You may never know that you needed a firewall until it's too late, and since they're being packaged with anti-virus software, it makes sense to install one. I'll examine this in more detail on Tuesday when AnchorDesk returns from the holiday weekend.
This article can be found on the net at: http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2686807,00.html
Your Name:City: State:
Please include your name or I don't know who it is from...
Strand board is unprotected against moisture absorption. No visible lag fasteners. No foundation vent openings ( if it has crawlspace ). No visible flashings. No vapor barrier over soil surface. Reggie Ayres, Medford OR
NEWS from CPSC .... U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission .... Office of Information and Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE .... Water Heater Recall Hotline: (800) 642-3111 .... February 15, 2001
Release # 01-085 .... CPSC Contact: Ken Giles .... CEC Media Contact: Becky MacDonald WASHINGTON, D.C. - In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), Controlled Energy Corporation (CEC), of Waitsfield, Vt., is recalling about 320 AquaStar natural gas water heaters. The heaters can produce dangerous levels of carbon monoxide in the exhaust gas, which can cause serious injuries and death.
CPSC and Controlled Energy have received reports of two deaths and two injuries in Manitoba, Canada, reportedly caused by the release of carbon monoxide from the water heater.
The AquaStar natural gas water heaters were made in Portugal, and were distributed in the United States as model number AQ38B NG. The water heater is off-white in color, with the word "AquaStar" in red, on the front of the unit. The model number can be found on the rating plate, on the right side of the water heater.
The water heaters were sold nationwide through plumbing supply stores and plumbing contractors from March 1997 to January 2001, for about $440, plus installation.
Consumers who have the recalled AquaStar unit (model number AQ38B NG), should turn off the water heater immediately and call Controlled Energy Corporation toll-free at (800) 642-3111 between 8:30 a.m. and 7 p.m. ET Monday through Friday. CEC is offering consumers a free on-site repair conducted by a licensed professional plumber.
Name, City & State: Please include your name or else I don't know who it is from.
I think Bill handled this like a seasoned inspector; truly a professional.
I have seen cracked shower/tub fiberglass pans in the past. I lived with one for five years before remodeling the bathroom. There was no evidence that the "hairline" cracks were there until weight (not 475#) was applied. (2 @ 4" - 6" in length right where the wall of the tub curved into the pan section. Both ran with the length of the tub below the enclosure.) All those years and many showers later we found no evidence of damage to the underlying sheathing and/or framing.
With this recent outbreak of cracked shower/tub pans we may want to rethink how we inspect these units. I recommend we take a non-evasive marker (candle wax, chalk, plastic spoon or one's fingernails) and run it up and down the side into the tub area when we suspect something may be happening. (Maybe we should *stand* inside the unit while inspecting.)
Another thing I do at all of my inspections is to take photos of everything that may be a hot contender for questions down the road. I store them in the event I need them. (CD-R's allow 750mb of storage on each cd and their cheap @ .50 each. Of course you have to have a burner: not cheap at $250.00 each.) BTW, if you are a nail chewer, I strongly recommend you not use the fingernail method noted above.
Steve E. Dansby - CA
Looks like your bases are all covered, Michael. This story is a great example why we MUST have a well prepared service agreement that clearly states our limits of liability. By the way, were there any FAT ONES in the household? I also want to clarify something about my shower crack experience. The shower unit was the typical acrylic or plastic material used in manufactured homes, not cultured marble (fiberglass) that the scammers wanted me to pay for. Reggie Ayres Medford,OR
Michael, without wanting to put disgrace upon you, I would like to appoint you the "Lawyer for A.I.I." This letter is better than anyone could hope for from a seasoned lawyer let alone a well-seasoned and even better spoken/written inspector. You might want to talk with Bob Allen about the possibility of working for his firm on these types of "problems". Ron Cloyd - Klamath Falls, OR
I would say you went way beyond what was necessary in your written response. If time = $, then I'd say you lost on this one without even writing a check. You were VERY thorough in explaining your position, but my opinion is that this fellow did not deserve as thorough an explanation as you gave him. Having said that, I know that I get emotional when I am accused of incompetence and I also will go to great lengths to explain my position. I think you probably burned most of a day writing your letter, and if the guy wasn't satisfied with your telephone conversation he is not going to stay quiet after receiving your letter.
The letter was a great instuctional device for the Realtor, if you sent it to her, as well. (Which would be a good pre-emptive strike). She will probably learn more from it than the client and understand your reasonable position far more clearly than the client, putting her in a position to also act as a facilitator in quieting the situation (if she is one of the few agents who is not more inclined to want you to make the "problem" go away at your expense.)
I am printing your letter to file away as a reference in the unlikely event that I get a complaint. (Unlikely? I firmly believe in taking a positive approach to this business). Like you, I have a lot of confidence in my ability as a home inspector, so when there is a complaint, I react as if it is an outrage. Then, if I am wrong, I fix it. But if I am right, I dig in my heels. Your written response is a great instruction to the rest of us on how to dig in our heels without coming off as just another jerk who shirks responsibility. Scott Merritt, Hillbilly from California
I, too, do not believe you owe this client. We know from experience and common sense tells us that contractors are in the business to make money. If they see a crack in a shower pan it is an automatic (for the hungry ones) "Oh my, that's bad! It needs to be replaced ASAP." (An honorable contractor would water test and evaluate prior to making a blanket call.)
Furthermore, I would have asked the client what method did the contractor use to reach the conclusion "that the crack was all the way through and that the crack was very old......." Did the contractor do a written report (including the protocol for discovery in detail")? In other words Dr. #$%$#@# there needs to be more than just a blanket statement for this complaint and the contractors assertions. If you will provide to me the contractor’s written report of his findings and method of discovery, it would help you and I better understand how the contractor discovered and claims that a surface crack is actually cracked all the way through.
Spider web and hairline cracks are very common in Cultured Marble products. (This should be listed as a *Menu 2 with the default chosen* on every 3D report when Cultured Marble is selected.)
BTW, to my knowledge (I have installed many), Cultured Marble is a solid product. You would not have a base product installed below or around the unit’s shower pan; only the sheathing and framing. So, if there is a crack that is >all the way through< you would easily see the water from below in the subarea or on the finished floor somewhere (A darkening of the vinyl or wet carpet.) Steve E. Dansby, Portola, CA
I responded back to Steve the following.....
Steve: I do not believe that we are on the same page here.... The cultured marble shower is the type with solid surface flat walls and a flat pan. Every joint is then caulked. Around here these are installed after the pan (mortar and bladder are in place). Or that is what I have always believed.....
This is not like the fiberglass precast shower pans that are installed directly above the basement slab without any bladder or secondary protection....... Clear me up on what you are referring too. Your post has made me step back and take a quick double thought. This is the type that the drain is not secured to the cultured marble. The drain securing is down below and that is why the caulk at the drain below the decorative haircatching coverplate is so important. It keep water from getting between the cultured marble and the mortar base....... If I am way off base, please point me in the right direction for information..... Thanks for the reply...... How's your health??? Michael Leavitt
Then it became apparent that the cultured marble type showers in Northern California are constructed differently than they are here in Utah. Steve shared this about their construction.......
I am/was indeed talking about the Cultured Marble pan (flat base with about a 4 - 6" curb on 4 sides with solid material and heavy) and the 3/8" flat panels that silicone onto the drywall surface after setting the pan.
Even the fiberglass shower pans we install do not have a mud and bladder base. They are set onto a wet foam which, when dried, supports the live load during showering. I am familiar with tile shower pans. These installations will, typically, use a mud base and bladder substrate for maximum protection.
Make sense or are we still on separate sites? Is there a specialist in your area that can clear up the questions regarding the type of product and its installation requirements? Take care ~ Steve E. Dansby
I was still unsure if we were discussing the same showers .....
Steve... How do you seal the drains when you install them there??? How do you keep all of the caulking joints from failing and leaking all over the place??? Michael Leavitt
Steve again responded with....
The >drain assembly< in the ones we install are made of rubber. You slide the waste line into this and tighten the lock nut from above (if a slab) and this compresses the rubber to fit the waste pipe tightly. If you have a subarea you can use the lock ring and washer as shown.
This diagram is similar to Culmar's pan with the exception of Culmar being solid throughout (flat base). The Culmar is laid onto the sheathing over the waste line. Assembly is very similar.
The product you are talking about sounds similar to how Ceramic tile pans are installed in this area. So, is there a material in your area that is fluid and is installed using a float on a mud base? In other words, how do they get a Cultured Marble look if they are using a prefinished product. BTW, we have all our Cultured Marble products made by Cul-Mar Products in Reno, NV. We place an order, pick it up and install it ourselves. Never have we discussed with them an option of >in field< pour. I don't think they offer that service.
Cultured marble with flat panels is >definitely< a leak waiting to happen, if not properly installed. Many units have been installed improperly(I've done it myself and that's how I know.). 99% of these leak, leak, leak. This type of installation requires constant diligence on the part of the homeowner. You MUST keep the joints (all of them) siliconed tight. This requires a lot of maintenance. I did a repair for a couple this last year who had 8 years earlier remodeled their bathroom. It looked beautiful. But, the Cultured Marble pan and shower walls leaked like a sieve. Cost them $8 grand to fix. Let me know if this helps or just made the water muddy. Steve E. Dansby
Your Name: Please include your name or else I don't know who it is from.
I had thought that we were beyond the Bill Clinton influence until I went to a Home Inspector's chapter meeting this past week. We were discussing improvements that could be added to our state's Real Estate purchase Contract when I was challenged on whether a shower pan is a "Plumbing Fixture" or not...... This drew my mind back to Bill Clinton needing a defintition for the word "IS"...... I never thought that a shower pan might not be considered a plumbing fixture.
I then shared the following on another Home Inspector board that is famous for doctrinal quotations from the "Codes". When I need a stable foundation for reporting a condition, I generally run it by these sages in our industry. Fellow Inspectors..... I need your help in defending my actions against a local Home Inspector who is spreading falsehoods that incriminate my position in a client dispute. I am currently using our Utah Real Estate Purchase Contract to help direct a buying client who moved into the home and immediately found a crack in their cultured marble shower pan floor. I have told my buyer that according to the REPC it is the Seller's responsibility to turn this over in working order. Here is the section of Utah's REPC.......
10.2 Condition of Property. Seller warrants that the Property will be in the following condition ON THE DATE SELLER DELIVERS PHYSICAL POSSESSION TO THE BUYER:
10.2.b the heating, cooling, electrical, plumbing and sprinkler systems and fixtures, and the appliances and fireplaces will be in working order and fit for their intended purposes;
This inspector is on the Real Estate Purchase Contract committee for the Utah Association of Realtors representing my profession (much to my horror) and he emphatically states that a shower stall is not covered in the above sections of the REPC. He states that bathtubs are fixtures, but that shower stalls are not. He states that prefab shower stalls are a gray area, but those constructed on site are definitely not covered. He also states that the shower surround on either a tub or a shower is not covered, only the tub itself is considered a fixture. Hence if the surround is leaking and deteriorating the walls, floors and basement below that it is not covered by the section above.
I can't prove it, but that has got to be an absolute falsehood..... We are in UBC land and I am not even sure where the definition of what is a fixture and what is not. According to this Inspector, a leaking tile shower pan is not a Seller's responsibility as spelled out above. There must be something wrong with this thought process. Toilets and tubs help get water to a drain and they are Plumbing Fixtures. Isn't the same is true for surrounds, shower stalls, and shower pans... They help get water to a drain.
Can any of you help me with any ammunition??? To me this is a crystal clear topic, but this inspector is really muddying up the water.
Michael Leavitt - Orem, Utah
I received some great feedback based on different "Building Codes" around the Country. Charlie Wood is one of the most comical, straight forward people in our industry.
No matter whether it's a fixture or not, it's still part of the plumbing "system". It needs to be in working order. Who *is* this guy?
BTW, putting aside for a moment that the guy is an idiot, ask him if he knows anything about sizing pipes and drains. Then ask him if this shower would be included in those calculations. Of course it would. The shower is assigned x number of fixture units. Why, he asks? Because it's a fixture, Puddin'head!!
A call to the UBC should clear it up. Charlie Wood - Georgia
Noel McShane is another well-versed Code Gurus and he shared this gem of clarity from the CABO code......
CaboP2301- FIXTURES,FITTINGS AND APPURTENCES - Plumbing fixtures must conform to the standards shown in No.p-2301of the code. Fixtures are the portion of of the plumbing system which are connected to both the water supply and the drainage systems. The fixture must have smooth impervious surfaces and be free from defects so that they are cleansed when discharged Etc...etc... Bottom line is a similar requirement is in all the codes. Noel McShane - Georgia
Douglas Hansen is one the authors of the Code Check series and he didn't mince words either.....
A shower is definitely a part of a plumbing system, given that the rules for construction of same are so incredibly specific in every code that deals with them. You say you are in "UBC" country, but that doesn't tell me what plumbing code you use. If it is the Uniform Plumbing Code, you might quote section 412.5, which states "Shower receptors are plumbing fixtures and shall conform to the general requirements therefor contained in Section 401.0." That little gem states the following:
"401.1 Quality of Fixtures. Plumbing fixtures shall be constructed of dense, durable, non-absorbent materials and shall have smooth, impervious surfaces, free from unnecessary concealed fouling surfaces. Except as permitted elsewhere in this Code, all fixtures shall conform in quality and design to nationally recognized applicable standards or to other approved standards acceptable to the Administrative Authority. A list of accepted plumbing fixture standards is included in Table 14-1."
Section 412.5 through 412.12 go on with detailed regulations about showers, including one stating that receptors must be watertight (412.8.1). So, if you folks still use the UPC, it certainly supports your position. If you are using the UPC, I have it in Microsoft word (both mac and pc forms) and I could email the whole chapter on fixtures.
If, as I believe this inspector will contend, Utah is on the IRC then we go to a different set of references. Section 2709 deals with shower receptors. Of course, the title of chapter 27, where this section is found, is "Plumbing Fixtures." The first section of chapter 27 starts with a paragraph much like the one I quoted from the UPC. I can send that one to you as a pdf file, though my copy is not exactly the same as the final one that was printed (I have an advance copy).
If it ain't either of those codes, then they might be using CABO, or the 98 International 1&2 Family Dwelling Code, or the International Plumbing Code. My CABO books are a little out of date (most recent is an 89) so we will need Noel's help if that is what you guys use. If it is the 98 1&2 FDC, then you are dealing with chapter 32, and section 3210, all with same content as above. If you use the IPC, it is in chapter 4, specifically section 417. I can send you that one as a pdf file if you need it. Douglas Hansen - Code Check - Palo Alto, CA
I responded back to this group of fellow Inspectors.......
So I am not that crazy after all......... Thanks for the doctrinal armour to defend myself in battle!!! All of this came to a head whilst this Inspector was trying to belittle me at our monthly chapter meeting. I dislike it when 20 Inspectors leave the room not knowing what to think. After receiving your responses, I will then reshare the information in my MMM giving you all the credit to set the record straight..... It is funny because when Douglas or Noel speak on the Codes, everbody shuts up and listens. You can't argue the printed word directly from the source.
The following is a great photo of a newer home. The structure is clad with EIFS. The water heater has a large PVC type venting system.
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